353 bremsen

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eoi2621
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Freitag 6. Mai 2016, 19:23

Ich habe mit Trommelbremsen wartburg die vorderen Bremsen sind schwach ist es möglich, jemanden rechten Zylinder nach links Rad und linken Zylinder rechte Rad ist dies sogar möglich, ausgestattet ist

Hello I bought a 1974 wartburg 353 last year the front drum brakes are very poor. I have fitted new brake shoes and all the pistons/cylinders move freely . I am wondering if someone has fitted left-hand cylinders to the right wheel and right hand cylinders to left wheel? Could this happen

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
Wohnort: Finnland

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Freitag 6. Mai 2016, 20:00

Yes, I have already made that, not knowing the difference between the different brake cylinders. But the difference in brake power was very small with a cylinder mounted at wrong side. Properbly just notificable at a brake dynamometer and the small difference was allowed.
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Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Freitag 6. Mai 2016, 22:08

Thanks Can't understand what is wrong with my brakes ? Perhaps the master cylinder is bad ?

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Samstag 7. Mai 2016, 07:27

eoi2621 hat geschrieben:.....a 1974 wartburg 353 last year the front drum brakes are very poor....

Do the brakes easily block the back wheels?
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
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Registriert: Sonntag 27. September 2015, 11:10
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Samstag 7. Mai 2016, 11:10

No .Even if you press pedal very hard the wheels do not lock . The car stops in a straight line but the brakes are very weak. The wheel cylinder/pistons all move when pedal is pressed

eoi2621
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Samstag 7. Mai 2016, 13:40

What diameter are the front wheel cylinders if I buy new seals and hone the cylinder bores?

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Sonntag 8. Mai 2016, 09:17

eoi2621 hat geschrieben:No .Even if you press pedal very hard the wheels do not lock . The car stops in a straight line but the brakes are very weak. The wheel cylinder/pistons all move when pedal is pressed


So the valve preventing the back wheels from locking is right adjusted, and do not leed you to wrong thoughts.

The diameter in cylinders is 1". But if the cylinders work properly, it wont help repairing them. Althought when opening the cylinders you might find something.

I assume that the selfadjusting brake shoe taps are working, while you managed to change to new brake shoes.
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
Wohnort: Finnland

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Sonntag 8. Mai 2016, 09:42

eoi2621 hat geschrieben:Thanks Can't understand what is wrong with my brakes ? Perhaps the master cylinder is bad ?


The 353 master cylinder shall have a diameter of 22,2 mm. In 311 the master cylinder have the diameter of 25,4 mm. There is a very small possibility that someone have put a wrong master cylinder into your car. The bigger diameter would cause an 25% decrease in brake fluid pressure. Could that decrease be enough for you to feel a weaker brake force at front?
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
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Registriert: Sonntag 27. September 2015, 11:10
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Sonntag 8. Mai 2016, 10:59

Thanks I am going to try and get brakes tested on a brake roller machine at a garage next week . I will post results

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Sonntag 8. Mai 2016, 15:57

I got an unsual idea. If the brake cylinders are mounted 180 degrees wrong, the brake drum is trying to turn the brake shoe back to the brake cylinder piston instead of pressing at brake cylinder end. That will cause a decrease in brake power. Here is a picture of my brake cylinder at right side ( see the steering rod). The connection pipe goes downwards from the brake cylinder.

My idea is easy to shoot down. Just remove the brake drum and image, which end of the brake shoe will be pressing, when the brake drum is rotating forward.
Dateianhänge
DSC08887.JPG
DSC08887.JPG (118.81 KiB) 6057 mal betrachtet
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
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Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Sonntag 27. September 2015, 11:10
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Sonntag 8. Mai 2016, 19:23

The brakes look like your photo ,I will get them measured on a brake machine next Friday . The annual safety test MOT (TUV) is in 5 weeks as well and they also test all the brakes. Perhaps I am not used to Wartburg ? My Barkas b1000 had good brakes I thought 353 would be similar

eoi2621
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Freitag 13. Mai 2016, 23:53

Got my brakes tested today and was hoping someone would have their MOT?TUV read out handy ,drum braked 353 but a 311 or disc 353 would be in same ball park/?

Front axle 2.31kn 2.16kn imbalance 6%

rear axle 1.74kn 1.10 kn imbalance 37%

hand brake 1.61 kn 1.21 kn

Suspect rear drivers has a sticking/ leaking cylinder but would like an opinion on front brake effort

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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Samstag 14. Mai 2016, 08:14

I found some numbers from my 353 with drum brakes at front. The front brake values and hand brake differs a lot from one year to another, but they were accepted for my car. The handbrake difference might depend on how much the brake drums had rost inside. At front it could depend on the air pressure in the tyres. Or is there a difference in who is testing?

Brake / Left / Right / Difference/ Allowed

Year 2014
Front 2.1 / 2.2 / 5% / 30%
Back 1.2 / 1,6 / 25% / 30 %
Handbrake 1.0 / 1.0 / 0% / 70 %

Year 2013
Front 1.6 / 1,5 / 6% / 30%
Back 1.3 / 1.2 / 8% / 30%
Handbrake 1,3 / 1.6 / 19% / 70%

Year 2011
Front 2.9 / 2.8 / 3% / 30%
Back 1.4 / 1.5 / 7% / 30 %
Hand brake 1.8 / 1.9 / 5% / 70%
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
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Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Sonntag 27. September 2015, 11:10
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Samstag 14. Mai 2016, 11:03

Thanks .That was very helpful

eoi2621
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Montag 16. Mai 2016, 21:56

https://www.reich-tuning.de/ersatzteile ... g-353.html

Anyone know if these are 30mm or 50mm please I e-mailed reich but no answer

30mm oder 50mm ????

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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Mittwoch 18. Mai 2016, 05:40

I also do not figure out if 30 mm or 50 mm, but it a shorter brake shoe meant for the back , properly with a handbrake level attached. The next item, brake drums without cooling ribs, look to me to be for 353W, but is marked only with 353.

These brake shoes look like 50 mm for an 353 Wartburg with drum brakes at front .
https://www.reich-tuning.de/ersatzteile ... 00-HA.html

Besides I find it unlikely that your brake power will improve with new brake shoes, but at the other side 32,9 euro (+ post costs) is very cheap price to expell that possibility. As I understand the set contains of 4 brake shoes and not only one brake shoe. With bad e-mail answers, it is not good if you have to wait 4 weeks, in case he does not have them at store, but as earlier written 32,9 euro is not much.
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.

eoi2621
Werkzeugsucher
Beiträge: 44
Registriert: Sonntag 27. September 2015, 11:10
Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): 1974 wartburg saloon 353

Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon eoi2621 » Freitag 8. Juli 2016, 18:55

Update . A previous owner had fitted the wrong wheel cylinders to the rear brakes . They were only 19mm instead of 25.4mm . My brakes are ok now . Not wonderful but better
Thanks for help

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Warre 1000
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Mein(e) Fahrzeug(e): Wartburg 353 Limosine Bj. 1968
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Re: 353 bremsen

Ungelesener Beitragvon Warre 1000 » Samstag 9. Juli 2016, 21:12

{top}

That was not an easy failure to find.
Stig
Wenn man alles weiß, hat man sicher etwas missverstanden.


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